A Christian friend asked if I'd read Lynn Wilder's book Unveiling Grace. We're currently having a long, drawn out discussion on the difference between Mormonism and what people call "Biblical Christianity" (I have some personal problems with the title but we'll use it). I agreed, with the warning that I will probably be a harsh critic. So this is my commentary/critique/review of the book.
Part 1: Mormon Bliss
Page 16: I know very few people who fast for 24 hours, the official guideline of the church is "two consecutive meals", most people tend to skip breakfast and lunch on Sunday and then have an early dinner at 3 or 4. I've known others to have an early dinner Saturday and then fast until noon or so on Sunday. It's whatever you feel is best. To be totally honest we forget it most of the time and then show up to church and end up having to hide in the hall when we pull out our snacks! Momma gets hangry.
-He wants to be early for fast and testimony meeting? Now I know this whole book is a lie! haha! A bit of Mormon humor... almost everyone dreads testimony meeting.
-Okay so people love to point out that "Mormons sing praises to Joseph Smith in worship services"... like maybe once a year. Our stake president has asked that we not use that one in sacrament meeting unless the topic is Joseph Smith, and that should only come up once a year. Lots of Mormons feel uncomfortable singing that song as a part of worship, because we DO NOT worship Joseph Smith. Not every song in the hymnbook is a song of worship, some are just about topics that we believe in (Love at Home also comes to mind). To most Mormons, singing "Praise to the Man" is no different than teaching your kids "Noah built him an arky arky"
-Yes, Mormon chapels are almost always very plain. Apparently this is supposed to be so that we can focus on worship rather than be distracted looking at the decor. We are distracted anyway because there are a million kids screaming in the pews.
Page 17:Temples are very rarely open as early as 5 a.m. every day of the week. Usually 6. Sometimes they'll have one early morning day when they open at 5. But that means the volunteers working there have to arrive at 4, and that's a lot to ask.
Page 18: wow they must have had a rowdy primary to have a member of the bishopric in there. The bishopric very rarely graces the door of our primary room. (The kids need more male role models, we'd love to have them!)
Page 20: her word choice is already trying to emphasize being "good" and insinuating that Mormonism is a high-pressure works-based environment. In 30 years in the church I have NEVER felt that way. It's definitely common in the culture, but it's really about your personal attitude. If you feel social pressure to conform, you will feel a lot of pressure to be perfect. If you are focused on your personal relationship with God and not what other people think of you, you won't feel that way.
page 21: My parents NEVER expected us to get a 4-year degree, and neither of them had degrees. I paid for my own tuition and did not finish. My brother didn't even attend a single semester of college. I wouldn't say that's an LDS culture thing, but a wealthy corner of Utah County thing.
page 22: so.. "the Mormon prophet had heard from Heavenly Father" is not exactly how it happens and is another word choice meant to convey a cultic environment. A committee of church leaders has a list of missions needing missionaries and photos of prospective missionaries, then they pray for guidance and stick them together as they feel directed.
-I have only heard the opposite of "the worthiest missionaries receive international assignments" International assignments are generally more lax, and missionaries serving in other countries are less likely to have to face anti-Mormon rhetoric. The strongest missionaries are usually sent within the US.
page 23: an organization took you into a "torture room" where they "ripped" your son from you and made you you "give up your parental rights"? Or did you accompany your adult son to wish him well on an adventure that he had volunteered for? Yes, it's hard for a parent - but your kid is an adult making his own decisions. He wasn't being ripped from you and you had no legal rights over him. Parents go through the same thing when their kid goes to college, or joins the army, or anything else that a 19 year old does.
page 24: Mission training wasn't always done in the "isolated, walled-off complex" of the MTC. It used to be done on a part time basis. The powers that be decided that the 'cold turkey' approach was more effective (harder, but more effective). And there aren't really walls around it, there's a 3 ft tall iron fence and some bushes. Less cult compound, more business park. (Heres a link to see the "wall" on Google Earth)
page 34: finding it a bit ironic that she speaks so positively of her mom teaching the Bible to school kids and doing a Bible Fellowship... Mormons do the same types of things but her wording would be different to make it sound negative, like she'd somehow been coerced or tricked or felt obligated to do it.
page 36: Is it a coincidental tangent or grace and providence that brought the LDS missionaries to her door right when she was looking for a church teaching about the 'latter days'? For 30 years she was convinced it was God that lead them there, but now it is tangential.
page 40: again, ironic that the Mormons are "trying to persuade" "trying to convince" "smart (cunning)" and "artificial", trying to draw in new converts by establishing relationships. Isn't that what Christian churches are doing too, when they leave leaflets on my door to try to save me from my misguided heathen (or I've even seen satanic and occult!) ways? We all want more people on our side, and we all know the tactics to get them there.
-I CANNOT BELIEVE the lady swatted his hand away when he tried to take the sacrament!!!! She was SO in the wrong there. That is unacceptable. The policy of the church says "The sacrament is intended to help members renew their covenants, but if taking the sacrament helps visitors worship, they are welcome to do so". I was always told to explain to a visitor what the sacrament meant and allow them to choose if they would like to participate.
-Isn't caring if the bread is unleavened also legalistic? There is some measure of legalism in every church, unless you are Unitarian I suppose.
page 41: Her fault for not saying "the prayer" and planting her testimony in something else. (or, rather, joining the church based on a dream your husband had even though you weren't fully convinced.)
page 42: Although I have only once seen an LDS church with a basement, and never once heard of a baptismal font in a church basement, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that. My problem is again her rhetoric about the LDS baptism... don't Christians also get excited for baptismal services in their congregations? Don't other (not all, I know, but many) Christians believe that someone with authority - an ordained minister or pastor - needs to peform the baptism? Don't other Christians also believe that you have to say certain words in the baptism prayer - perhaps "in accordance with your profession of faith in Jesus Christ I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"? Don't other churches have "oblong vats" (i.e. small rectangular pools) in them for performing baptisms? Her tone makes the Mormon way seem silly, even though its the same as most any church.
-"indoctrinated"... again with word choice. After 6 months of attending any church, you will start to feel comfortable and begin conforming with the group. It's basic psychology, not indoctrination.
page 43: I don't get why unpaid clergy is such a huge deal to people. It's not slave labor, you can say no or quit at any time. Why do people feel it is appropriate to expect payment when you are serving God?
-the no beard thing was pretty big in the 70's, but is now largely a social construct. The church wanted to distance itself from the hippie/drug culture and the historical image of the long-bearded polygamist patriarch. Many, but not all, in church leadership still think that clean shaven is more appropriate. There's a guy in my ward with a beard about a foot long and everyone thinks it's awesome. I also prefer my husband with a beard.
page 44- "most LDS Church members are not considered worthy to attend the temple"... I mean, technically, because about half of those on the rolls don't attend meetings. But almost any Mormon I know who actually shows up to church at least once a month is/has been a temple attendee. Maybe it's just Utah Mormon culture, but the only people I know who don't go to the temple don't go because they don't want to, not because they are 'unworthy'. You determine your own worthiness and declare it to the bishop, interpreting the interview questions however you wish; they don't dig into your personal life to determine if you're worthy.
- I wouldn't say that "you must have as many children as you can physically and emotionally support" and I wouldn't say it's a "mandate" - perhaps it felt that way in the less sensitive 70's, but these days everyone says the number of children you have is totally between you and God. Most want children and find joy in a larger family - "happy is the man who has a quiver full of them" Psalm 127:5. The Church simply teaches that the family unit is the most fundamental building block of church, heaven, and society in general, and that God has important lessons to teach us through Parenthood.
page 46- declarations of lineage are not always meant to be literal, and if they were, that blood of Ephraim would be from thousands of years back, not something you'd see in genealogy.
-I would say the blessings depend on if you remain faithful to God, not the church. The blessing is coming from God, not from the church, and is dependent on your personal righteousness, not how you are perceived by church members or even leadership.
page 47 - "do what is right" "eager to please" these are true to an extent but it's the repetition and rhetoric, she is trying to reinforce the culture of works. Again, these are cultural constructs and not true gospel teachings.
page 48 - so it's "supernatural" if a Mormon is blessed and their prayers are answered, but it's God's grace if a Christian's prayers are answered?
-contemporary Christians are not as big into special areas for devoted prayer, but traditional Christians do see value in having personal time alone with God in a cathedral, etc. So going to the temple to feel closer to God is not unfounded.
-I sure hope that most Mormons don't believe that temple work is winning God's favor to grant specific blessings like that. That is a misinterpretation of doctrine.
-temple work does not "redeem the dead to the Mormon church" but rather provides the dead with an opportunity to accept Jesus.
-WHY DID SHE NOT GO TO A HOSPITAL?!? If I felt labor pains at 5 months I would be in the ER immediately.
page 49- "Mormonism" didn't save your baby, God saved your baby. If she felt that way she had really backward thinking. No wonder she left, she put her faith in an imperfect organization and a belief system rather than God. "Misguided faith in Mormonism" indeed.
-I also don't see the spiritual danger she put her son in... I mean except being born to a mother who treated Mormonism like Scientology for no apparent reason.
**At page 50 I sent my friend this text: 50 pages in and if she's being honest, I know why she left. She repeats it over and over. She put her faith in Mormonism rather than in God, and she felt pressured to conform to social expectations to be accepted rather than feeling secure in her faith. She wasn't converted to the gospel just joining a club. After 30 years she would have been desperate for a way out of the hole that she'd dug herself into.
Page 52- "anything that contradicted the Mormon gospel was deemed satanic"... Wow. She has really taken that way too far. Definitely not a Mormon teaching. As a Mormon apostle recently said, "we can disagree without being disagreeable". In other news, I have had Christians tell me Mormonism is satanic because it "contradicts God's word", so they can't be too offended.
page 53- it's true that more is expected of members in areas with smaller Mormon populations. You have to drive further and do more to keep the ward in operation. In Utah most don't do near as much. Shes lucky it wasn't a couple years earlier when Sunday church was 2 hours in the evening and other meetings were held on weekdays. That's a ton of driving.
-yes the curriculum was heavily scripted in those days, but I've seen Christian curriculum just as heavily scripted. That's the nature of having volunteer teachers.
-visiting teaching is not "required", and most of us are terrible at it. I sometimes remember to send a text and that's about it.
-"we tried to live the Mormon life to please Heavenly Father"... Sorry but canning vegetables isn't pleasing to Heavenly Father it's just a good practical idea.
page 54-Mormons don't usually say "progressed in the priesthood" because it implies some kind of hierarchy and earning of position. Most positions are temporary and pretty much every man is ordained, so there isn't much "progression" to be had.
-if you are going to the temple to please Heavenly Father you are going for the wrong reasons.
-"we now knew how to please Heavenly Father with our callings and our works. As a result of our honorable behavior and righteous life, he would bless us." Umm.... No. Yes you can be blessed for your faithfulness, but you don't do works to earn blessings. According to the church, the blessings that may come as a result of temple work are listed in these verses of D&C 109. (verses 10-12, 22-23, 67,72,75) They list such things as increased faith and spreading of the gospel. It isn't "go to the temple 5 times to have a baby" it's "go to the temple where you will feel close to God and increase your testimony of Him, and that testimony will help you have faith in whatever plan He has for your life."
page 56-"the legitimacy of any personal spiritual experience was determined by a priesthood authority with stewardship over me" false. Your experiences are for you. If you had a question about it's legitimacy then they could help you determine that, but as a mother you have been given stewardship for the spiritual safety of your family and have authority to receive revelation for them. No higher priesthood authority needs to authenticate this for you.
-Many Mormons choose to keep sacred experiences private, but I do know of many people who have shared with me experiences with demonic forces. My grandmother has had very similar experiences as the ones described in this book, although to my knowledge she never had a priesthood holder command the demon to leave.
page 57 -the Christian minister was removed from the temple in the early 1990's. The segment now implies all people of the world in general. This because the church teaches that many Christians and Christian ministers are well-meaning, and this implied to some that all were influenced by satan. (I think we can all agree that there are some phony money-grubbing "Christian" ministers out there.)
page 58 - I agree that the fire event was an instance of grace. This had nothing to do with temple garments (that would have more to do with immedate physical protection, not saving the whole house) or priesthood (unless a priesthood holder had given her a blessing and warned her to be vigilant about fire?) and she was foolish to ever think those things would save her. I don't know many Mormons who would say their garments saved their house from catching fire, only that GOD did.
-"I was taught that I was in charge of my decisions, I was in charge of my destiny, I was the god of my life." WHAT???? Mormons believe you are in charge of your destiny only so far as you choose whether you will accept Jesus as your Savior and accept His plan for your life. If God wants you to have a baby, you'll have one. You have no power over Him. He is bigger than birth control and obviously showed you that He knows what's best.
-page 59 -Eastern Ayurveda and chakras represents the actions of Christ? I mean, if you are into unconventional medicine that is your own prerogative, but I would definitely not confuse 'goodness' with Christianity. There are good people with many different belief systems.
-page 60 - it is totally inappropriate to TELL the Lord anything in a blessing. If that's what he said he was WAY off base. It should be "Lord, this baby's life is in YOUR hands. We ask that you would let this baby live, but please give us the faith to accept Your will."
-"Now Heavenly Father might be punishing me for being so weak" - weak in faith, yes. If you really felt at the time the way to describe in this book, He was trying to show you that HE is in control and that you should trust HIM not your own stupid efforts to can vegetables and attend every single church meeting. (Can you tell I'm getting really fed up?)
-okay so before she was mocking trusting 'feelings' and now she is saying that because she felt peace she knew everything would be alright. God, in His grace, was granting you the peaceful companionship of the Holy Spirit to confirm truth to your heart. That is a Mormon teaching as well as a Christian one.
-page 61 - Instead of sitting around feeling guilty and afraid, why don't you pray and ask God to give you strength to face the task?
-page 66 - so did you want a 4th because you wanted another child or because you felt 'obligated' to?
-WHY was he laughing when you had a nail through your foot? Some loving husband.
-page 68 -"Sunday attendance alone was not sufficient for an active Mormon family" uhh... yeah it is. I don't feel obligated to go to other activities but usually do because there's free food and my building is a block away. Doesn't your church have kids activities (VBS? Awanas?) youth groups, youth camps, dances, dinners, small groups, study groups, etc? It's pretty much the same thing. Churches of all denominations offer weekday activities. They are no more required in Mormonism than they are in any other denomination.
-page 69 - could read "Mike had extra church meetings for four hours a YEAR, I did service projects with our women's group once a month, we attended baptismal services a few times a year, four Sundays a year we drove a little further to attend a regional service in place of our regular worship service" Doesn't most anyone who is active in any church community have the same commitments to their church? Most of the Christians I have known do.
-ugh. Temple recommends are not 'earned'. I think I already went over this. It's not a test to pass; the interview is there to help you assess your own relationship with God, and if you honestly feel that you are "right with God", you'll answer yes, and they'll give you the recommend. They're only going to deny it if you are blatantly lying (have never heard of anyone being denied a recommend, because they know what the questions are and know if they can't answer honestly so they don't bother.)
-page 70 - Mormons believe that God will place you wherever you feel most comfortable. If you don't feel comfortable in His presence, then you won't be there. If you feel more comfortable among the lukewarm believers, then you'll be there. Isn't that where you will be happy? Nothing like spending eternity hating being in the presence of God and longing to be with the more laid back crowd...
-I have been to the temple over 100 times and have never rented clothes, (I have my own) but if you do it costs like $1. Because they've gotta pay someone to sew them and wash them.
-the shield has since been done away with and you just wear white clothes. And like she says, the touching of each body part was removed in 2005 because everyone hated it for like 50 years. I'm going to be a creep and say that I probably would have preferred the touching because just listing them all seems like cheating.
-page 71 -so yeah in the modern endowment you do put on the garment before you take the covenant. It wasn't always that way. You used to do it as a part of the endowment, but that made endowment ceremonies last for like 5 hours (because they'd have to pull each person aside individually to do the washing, change their clothes, etc while everyone else is sitting there waiting), so they shortened it by having you put it on the garment first and then doing the rest of the ordinance. Streamlines the process tremendously. Weren't you just complaining about how long it took?
-page 72 - yes you don't know what the covenants are before you make them (unless you are cheating and looked it up on some anti website), but that's kinda the point. The *real* covenant is showing that you fully trust God. If you truly believe that this is from God then you will trust and obey whatever He asks of you, not knowing beforehand what it was. If He told you all the crap you'd face on earth would you still have come here? I probably wouldn't have, but I trust that He knows what's best for me and will face my trials with Him by my side, ready to help whenever I ask (and even when I don't). Likewise, you don't know the covenants you are going to make, but you trust that they are from God, that this is what God wants for you, and that His grace will enable you to meet your potential.
-also going to be a creep here: bummed that they took out the penalties. I know they freaked people out but I would have liked it.
-Okay so people trash the church for the law of consecration. Here's the thing... there's no physical/earthly punishment for not obeying it. The church isn't going to come knock on your door because you refused to dedicate your talents and sing in the choir or give you the boot because you didn't let them borrow your van for scout camp. This is a personal covenant with God that you will dedicate all that He has given you to build up what you believe is His kingdom. It's the same type of vow that a Catholic nun makes. An endowed Mormon is kinda the same thing - we have been consecrated, taken vows of poverty (in a more figurative way), chastity, and obedience, and clothed in a special clothing that reminds us of the covenants we have made.
-page 73 - you did all of the ceremonies in one day?? that is crazy town. Hardly anybody does that. That would take soooo long.
-page 74 - "we adjusted to the strangeness of the temple and figured we were too ignorant to know the mind of Heavenly Father." Honestly, I never thought the temple was strange. Even the first time I went it reminded me so much of the Old Testament and I loved it. Yes God's ways are higher than our ways so in a way we are too ignorant, but we can (and should) still find meaning in the temple ordinances. I know I do! Just like Jesus' parables, there are multiple layers of meaning and you find new connections as you mature in your understanding, but to the 'outsiders' its just a weird story.
-"apply for a recommend", "passed the interview" - again making it look like a test rather than a personal evaluation.
-"checked his recommend for worthiness"... umm... you don't check a recommend for worthiness because having one means you are worthy. you just check to see that it's signed and not expired.
page 75 - "sterile", "colorless", "humid" - all terms meant to convey a negative experience. You could also used "clean" and "simple" to describe the locker room (and.... uh.. its a locker room.. so clean is good and simple is expected) and humid.. well its a small room with a heated pool in it. It's not like a sauna or anything but its obviously going to be a little more humid. Go to a temple open house and tell me if it's humid.
-"baptized into the Mormon Church" I snow she mentioned this before but we believe the deceased person is allowed to choose whether or not to accept the baptism.
-From my understanding the Second Anointing has either been completely done away with or is now reserved only for apostles. It has been at least 50 years since anyone else was invited.
page 77- A working Mormon mother?! (sarcastic gasp) Maybe that was crazy in the 80s (although my mom worked occasionally) but now, most of the Mormon moms I know work. Usually for the same reasons Lynn describes - so dad can be home more often to help raise the kids, and because they find fulfillment in it.
page 79 - um... I don't feel like the slave laborer she's describing. If working outside the home limits the service I can give to the church, why do most Bishops have full-time careers? Shouldn't they be encouraged to quit so they can devote more time to the church? No. Women are encouraged to be around for their kids
page 80 - They should never put a husband and wife (especially with young kids) in huge callings like that at the same time. If this really happened it should not have. I would have brought my kids with me rather than leave the with a babysitter. Also a stake primary president isn't required to visit the wards more than once or twice a year. Maybe it was different in the 80's but it is definitely not an every Sunday thing. Now most of the communication is digital so there is even less travel.
-again maybe it was different in the 80's, but when the stake primary president visits a ward it isn't so... police-like? It is less 'We are here to observe how well you follow the rules and then report to the stake president' and more "Hey what kinds of resources do you need? How can we help? Is there anything your organization wants to communicate with the stake president?"
page 81 - They've definitely eliminated a lot of Sunday meetings in recent years because a lot of people felt they weren't getting family time. We are encouraged to have as much of our communication be done over e-mail/text as possible and only hold extra meetings when absolutely necessary.
page 82 - her stake president was way out of line. plain and simple. If she felt overwhelmed she should have asked to be released, and ALL requests for release should be honored, with maybe a few weeks allowed to find a replacement.
-your six year old had never seen someone smoking?! We live in UTAH and see people smoking outside the grocery store, in their cars, etc all the time.
page 83 - putting your family first is always pleasing to Heavenly Father.
-Yes stake conferences can be long and inconvenient weekends when you are in a leadership position and live in a place where membership is spread out. Thankfully it's only twice a year.
-THANK YOU for finally mentioning that not every member chose to fulfill church callings. of course this is the reason she had so many at one time, but it's not something you have to do. If you feel it is too much of a burden you just say no.
page 84 - yeah that lady who stopped teaching piano is the type normal Mormons make fun of. When the prophet speaks... we still can interpret it for ourselves. A woman would not be EXCOMMUNICATED for staying in a career. That is extreme. Like I said, most of the Mormon women I know work. Those with kids at home usually work part time or from home (but not always). We aren't robots, we are people that understand that other people have needs and free will and will find what works for them. The prophet's direction is the ideal but isn't law. President Hinkley gave a sermon about not getting tattoos and piercings and guess what? Tons of Mormons have tattoos and piercings and are not excommunicated.
page 85 - the first thing you think about as RS president is dressing dead bodies? what are the chances that a woman in your ward that had no other family in the church would die and leave you to dress the body? I mean, apparently it happened, but the RS president is the last resort. Plus you said that "most" Mormons didn't have temple recommends, so that makes the chances of having to dress someone even lower.
page 86 - you wouldn't be disobeying the prophet, he didn't call you to be RS president. Just tell the Bishop no and that would be the end of it.
-YOU DIDNT FEEL THE PRESENCE OF JESUS FOR 11 YEARS???? I think that's a sure sign that your life wasn't on the right track. You were focused on being busy doing things, but not on doing them for Him or better, with Him.
-Okay so if Jesus is helping you know exactly how to do your RS calling... why is he not instead saying "hey this Mormon church thing is a bust, get out?"
-good for the stake president for defending you this time. happy to read something positive.
page 87 - saying 'brother Jesus' just sounds weird. Yes the Bible says He is our brother... but... nobody says "brother Jesus", do they?
page 88 - isn't being called a 'radical individualist' a complement? I would be flattered!
-"I imagined Jesus as a brother I could talk to, but... Heavenly Father - the one with the physical body who'd worked his way to godhood - was... a punitive lawgiver" Except - we don't talk to Jesus, we talk through Jesus to Heavenly Father. And Heavenly Father is almost always described as loving and understanding. This just isn't my experience and is fairly inaccurate theology. And we know the "worked his way to godhood" thing was just placed there to provoke - I don't even want to go into that.
page 90 - pretty sure if Pinterest has taught us anything it is that almost all women feel pressure to be perfect and conform to social norms. If you give up on caring what other people think of you, life is a lot easier, trust me.
***I am feeling really annoyed and sick of this book, likely will not finish
page 93 - have never had a big church interview like this, but have been in the building twice and did not feel like I was being followed by security. One time (2005-ish) an old lady sitting at the front desk took me where I needed to go, and the next time (2010-ish) a security guard just gave me directions. Yes there was security in the building, but not following my every move.
page 95 - YES!! General revelation for the church as a whole is not the same as personal revelation. We are not supposed to blindly follow whatever the prophet says but to take what is suggested and pray about it to know how/if we should implement that for ourselves. That is what I have always been taught.
page 96 - "many Mormons refer to all non-Mormons as Gentiles" in what... 1850? I've never heard anyone use the term Gentile - only "non-member".
-"It was an incredible blessing that God could even consider us worthy for this opportunity" is making me laugh. Most everyone I know from around here would love to get out. Mormons from out of state are weird.
page 98 - I spent quite a bit of time in Alpine Cemetery and never saw "killed by injuns"! now I want to go back!
page 100 - I don't know what Joseph Smith being killed by a gun has to do with Jesus being killed on the cross. I also don't wear a gun around my neck. But I hear several reasons for why we don't use the cross (we used to in the 1800's!). This is the most simplistic. The others are because the cross is extremely sacred and we wouldn't want it to be taken lightly and to set us apart from mainstream Christianity.
-"ostentatious", "droning sirens", "bidding... to submit" again with word choice. Yes they can be large and expensive (high-quality with a high standard of workmanship) but are generally not extravagant so I wouldn't say ostentatious. And Mormons don't see them as "droning sirens bidding the faithful to submit" but as "hopeful beacons, reminding the faithful of God's presence". It's all in how you look at it.
-"rumor had it that special ceremonies, such as the second anointing, were held on other days." Except you know they aren't because there are no cars in the parking lot... lots of families have a tradition of walking around the temple grounds on Sunday and Monday - you'd think someone would notice if people were going inside. Also there are not rooms readily set up where a Second Anointing could be performed in any of the newer temples in the Salt Lake Valley. (I have had the opportunity to freely roam two of them and seen the official floor plans of others) It would have to be at Salt Lake IF the Second Anointing were still a thing, but nobody can seem to confirm that its happened outside of Apostles in 50ish years.
-Yes the General Authorities meet regularly in the Salt Lake Temple. The Apostles meet for a prayer meeting in the Salt Lake Temple every Thursday, where they also share a box of chocolates donated by a local chocolate company. There is a special room just for this purpose (see photos here, here, and here).
page 101 - I don't know that I'd call BYU campus a 'citadel' - it isn't very fortress-like, but is very college campus like.
page 102- the "Mormon" Jesus is the Christian Jesus - His commandments are found in the Bible. We might interpret what he said differently, but the commandments are the same.
page 103 - Utah Mormons usually embrace converts, we think they're super cool. Not a strike against you.
-I have heard of Mormons with the surnames of Wieting and Wilder. I meet Mormons literally every day with last names I've never heard before. Who really cares?
-Uh, working woman. Half the moms on my street work (and did, at this time). My mom worked off and on. Your problem was being in the wealthy area of town, where fewer women work because there isn't a need for them to. If you wouldn't moved to a lower class neighborhood things would have been much different. Again, this is NOT a Mormon thing, its a rich people thing.
-If you're so upset at the elementary school for holding an open house during normal business hours, then why don't you call and ask if there is an evening option? Ours held theirs at 6 a.m. so working parents could come and made all the stay at homes upset.
page 104 - most RS meetings are held in the evenings, so unless you are teaching night classes you could have gone. I'm sorry that the whole world doesn't revolve around you and they did what worked for the majority of people in your area.
-how am I supposed to know who has previous held a church leadership position and why should I care? My husband lived in Alpine for a long time and did not recognize this as being a thing.
-We only joke about showing a cop our temple recommend. You think the police force is so corrupt as to let you off because of that? If anything it shows that you shouldn't have one because you are being willfully disobedient and trying to use it to your advantage.
-"Each home had a front room called the home teaching room" uh, yeah, its called a living room. Is it that uncommon outside of Utah for homes to have a formal living room? Most here do in wealthy areas but in my neighborhood most of the homes do not have one.
-"there was little diversity" again - because you are in Alpine, an upper-class town. Move to the middle and lower class areas and it will be different.
-"Mormon status consciousness" is again a wealthy suburb thing not a Mormon thing. We're just trying to get by over here where the regular people live.
-if a guy told me he used to be a member of the stake presidency I'd say "who the hell cares?" right to his face and make him pay for the damages.
105 - okay so the last names... uh... I've only known Nielsons and Jensens.... and they were CONVERTS. shocker.
106 - yup. we've got polygamists. That's what makes Utah so interesting! We let them be, and why shouldn't we? I also have gay neighbors, Muslim neighbors, Hindu neighbors... and I let them be too. It's America people, letting people love and believe how they want is what we are all about, right?
107 - Almost all of my ancestors were pioneers and I don't have a pioneer journal either. They weren't writers, apparently. Also, they generally make it very clear that if you are convert - YOU are the pioneer.
-"Mormonism was the only doctrine offered" again, maybe in Alpine where it is 99% Mormon, but where us normal folks live there is usually an alternative. At my high school there was a Baptist church across the street that offered Christian release time. It was a popular program and nearly all my Christian friends attended. The "Baptist Seminary" (as we called it) had pizza Wednesdays and we'd all pretend to be Baptist that day. The Mormon Seminary served pancakes on Friday and everyone would pretend to be Mormon that day. The law says that religious "release time" classes can be offered by ANY religion, so long as it is held in a building within so many feet of a high school campus, there is no charge, and there is a safe walking route to get there.
108 - yes, "cultural Mormons" pervade. Also the term Jack- has been absorbed by other cultures in Utah. I once had a coworker tell me he was a "Jack-Muslim" because he always cheated and ate lunch during Ramadan.
-we loved asking people on dates in creative ways. What fun is it to just call and ask? This is really a Utah thing not a Mormon thing.
-I don't think your son being left out of a track meet had anything to do with you being converts. How would the track coach know, and why would he care? If you were upset you should have complained to the principal or the district.
109 - "the best spirits in the preexistence had been born into established Mormon homes" where does it say that? nowhere. You are only a second-class citizen because you are making yourself be one.
-"I learned not to tell anyone anything that I didn't want repeated" yes, the neighborhood rumor mill can be rampant among housewives, as satirized in a ton of movies and TV shows. It's hardly unique to Mormonism.
110 - "I turned off the radio and remained silent each time I drove by a temple" I didn't know people did this. weird.
111 - uh yeah, Mormon scientists and intellectuals. har har. Yes we teach evolution, we teach that dinosaurs really existed, we teach real science from actual textbooks. And I think a university is a better place for FARMS than the church office building (they want to be associated with scholarship and want the freedom not afforded to them if working directly under church leadership.)
113 - is it unusual to report a second language to your employer? I always have. Doesn't it make you look like a stronger candidate? Plus there's perks if anyone needing translation comes to visit!
114 - "the school of the prophets" I HATE when BYU fans say that. The majority of the prophets (and apostles) of the LDS church for the past 130 years graduated from MY alma-mater - THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH!
115-"We certainly weren't on the lookout for grace then, we were finding our way to the celestial kingdom ourselves" - and therein lies the problem. It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. If this is what you were doing, you did not grasp the true gospel of Mormonism.
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