There are a huge number of anti-Mormon videos online. Many of are just frustratingly inaccurate, but some of them are so wrong they are hilarious. This one has been making the rounds in some Mormon social media groups lately, so I thought I'd make a little commentary.
The video is posted on YouTube by JesusisGodism called "Mormons are Satanic Proof" (which is already a hilariously confusing title... do you mean "Proof that Mormons are Satanic"?)
-"Mormons call themselves the 'Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ" Actually we call ourselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It might help to actually know the name of the church you are speaking about if you want to look knowledgeable.
-"The information comes from this angel over there, which is the angel Moroni" You pronounced the name wrong, it's More-oh-nigh, not More-oh-knee, so I'm assuming you've only read about Mormons. Again, not making you look very knowledgeable on the subject. And most of our 'information' did not come from him, but I don't really know what you meant by that phrase.
-"Here he stands on top of the globe, blowing his trumpet" It's not supposed to be the globe, just a ball for aesthetics really. He's gotta be standing on something, and it's awful funny looking to have him standing right on the point of the steeple. The trumpet is symbolic of the trumpets that the Bible says will announce the Second Coming. (for example see Matthew 24:31)
-"Here is a typical Mormon church" That's actually a temple, not a church. Very different things. Also it's not typical, it appears to be the Dallas or Chicago Temple, and there's only a handful with that (or similar) design. They are in Boise Idaho, Manila Philippines, Dallas Texas, Taipei Taiwan, Guatemala City Guatemala, Stockholm Sweden, Chicago Illinois, Johannesburg South Africa, Seoul Korea, Lima Peru, Buenos Aires Argentina, Frankfurt Germany, Portland Oregon, and Las Vegas Nevada. For future reference THIS is a typical Mormon church.
-"And as you can see it has no windows" um... except for that giant long skinny window right there smack in the middle in the front, and the windows all down the sides, and the windows in the back, and the windows by the doors... (see the links in the previous comment to look at photos of each of the temples with this design, some have more windows than others, but they all have windows. Then take some time to look at other temples. Most have plenty of windows. Some that appear to not have windows actually have very thin marble walls that allow light to pass through (like the Washington DC temple) Perhaps you should take this one up with the architect. All Mormon churches have windows too, lots of them. It's kinda a safety requirement that buildings have to have windows in most countries.
-"Just like Masonic Lodges don't have any windows" our local masonic lodge has tons of windows...
-"Joseph Smith was a 33 degree Free Mason" I'm not extremely familiar with Masonry but I know that it is impossible for Joseph to have obtained such a rank, as it is extremely rare and requires much more devotion and activity than Joseph could have given it.
-"Who was his god? If he was a 33 degree Free Mason then his god was Lucifer." well I guess we've already established that he couldn't be a 33 degree Free Mason so we are set there, but the whole Satan-worship at high levels of masonry is a myth perpetuated by fellows such as yourself and there isn't any legitimate proof. If anything it is probably a misinterpretation of the symbolic rituals performed by Masons of that rank.
-"[Brigham Young] happened to be a 33 degree Free Mason" Again, no evidence of this, highly unlikely.
-"According to the book Blackrobe" Black Robe by Brian Moore is a historical FICTION novel.
-"Brigham Young was an intimate friend of Peter de Smet" Pretty much impossible. They probably had heard of each other, because they were both involved with preaching Christianity to the Native Americans in the Midwest, but most of the years that Brigham Young was in the midwest and west, de Smet was in Canada. It's possible, but unlikely, that they could have met at Council Bluffs or Fort Laramie or something at some point, but there is no record of that ever happening that I could find. You would think if they were "intimate friends" they would have at least mentioned each other at some point...
-"One of the most powerful American Jesuits of the 19th century" now I'm defending Catholics here... but de Smet wasn't American, he was Belgian. and Jesuits are not evil... he dedicated his life to being a missionary in a foreign country and teaching the Native Americans about Jesus. I don't see how that is Satanic.
-"Moroni" again, long I sound. "eye", not "ee".
-"gold tablets with this new doctrine on it" opinion, but the BoM actually has a lot of old doctrine on it... I mean, people accuse it of being plagiarized from the Bible.
-"I received the first degree in Free Masonry in the Nauvoo Lodge..." Yes, Joseph was a Free Mason. this is an established fact. But if he was initiated as a FIRST DEGREE mason in 1842 as this quote says, how could the temple ceremony be a rip-off of the Masonic ceremony when the earliest form of the temple ceremony was first performed 6 years earlier in 1836? And how did he achieve a 33 degree rank before he died two years later? And even if you were right and he was a 33 degree mason with Lucifer as his god... what of the 13 years of church doctrine he preached previous to that occasion? What of the Book of Mormon which was published 13 years previous? They wouldn't be Satanic then, would they?
Anyway, a correction on the source: the quote is from History of the Church Volume 4, pages 350 and 352. The first statement (page 350) is from March 15, 1842. The second statement (page 352) is March 16. (fun note: the Relief Society was established by Joseph the next day, March 17, 1842)
You can read all of this for yourself at this link.
-"Mormonism was started by Free Masonry" More accurately the founder of Mormonism was initiated into Free Masonry 12 years after Mormonism started. According to your source here, he was NOT a Free Mason when he started the church, nor for most of his life afterward, only the final two years. 1830 - church is founded, 1842 - Joseph initiated into Free Masonry, 1844 - Joseph murdered. Pretty simple.
-"Freemasonry is controlled by the Jesuits" A conspiracy theory with no legitimate evidence
-"Controls an entire state in the US at least" not really... I mean, culture influences government but the church is not in control of the state...
-"together with freemasonry controls the space program" if this were true I don't see how the space program is relative to Satanism... see next point
-"because everyone who has been to space is either a Freemason or a Mormon" the space program isn't controlled by the handful of people who have been to space, there are thousands of people involved... but most of the people who have been to space were NOT Freemasons or Mormons. I could find record of THREE Mormons who have been to space: Richard Searfross, Don Lind, and Jake Garn. And what about the women who have been to space? Obviously not Freemasons, also not Mormons.
-"They are the organization which have the greatest database on anyone ever living" yes, we do have a pretty awesome genealogy database, but I doubt its the greatest on anyone ever living. I mean, think of the NSA (at least for people currently living) or the Catholic Church (which has been around much longer and doesn't love to share their records with the LDS) I'll put this one down as possible but not probable.
-"Every single thing about you, they have in that database" umm... no not everything. It's a collection of records that are already publicly available - census records, newspaper obituaries, birth/death certificates, phone books, cemeteries, baptism records, etc. People could have found it all anyway, if they put some effort into tracking it down.
-"This database will become important when it comes to buying and selling and who gets what in the new dispensation." what? I am so confused by this statement and don't really know what he means. uuuuhhhhh.... it's to make genealogy easier, which furthers our work of redeeming the dead through temple ordinances. There is no buying and selling (again, it's public information mostly about deceased people so it's not something that can be sold, access is free to everyone), and we believe we are currently living in the new dispensation, there is no 'who gets what' involved... a dispensation is just a period of time.
-"They perform a very important work for the Jesuit order." umm... so you're saying that a Catholic religious order would go through the effort of secretly creating a whole different and very complicated religion with doctrine that they disagree with in order to... do something for them? Why not just convert people to Catholicism?
-"If you look at Mormonism they have the same sort of ritual as Freemasonry." First let me point out that the images here are highly offensive to Latter-day Saints and, since a faithful Latter-day Saint would never photograph such things, these are either taken and modeled by ex-members who obviously have the intention of disparaging the church (and thus may be lying in order to further their agenda) or are taken by people who have no idea what they're talking about. The quality of the photos here is very poor but from what I can tell these are not the same tokens/handshakes that we see in the temple. Not that it really matters.
With that out of the way... yes, we do have one temple ritual that has a similar format to one ritual in Masonry. Let me point out that it is ONE of many and is similar in FORMAT, not so much in content or meaning. So, the same 'sort' (type) of ritual, yes. Both Mormons and Masons wear symbolic clothing and use recitation, dramatization, and covenant making as a means of passing on moral and doctrinal lessons. We also perform the same "sorts of rituals" that Christians do, like immersion baptisms in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So by your logic we are also Christians.
-"They have the secret handshakes and all the paraphernalia that goes along with it." Paraphernalia (noun): the equipment needed for a particular activity. What paraphernalia goes along with handshakes? hands? yup. We have those. How satanic.
-"This is their main temple" that isn't even a temple. It's the Assembly Hall.... next to the "Main Temple", it's used for concerts, speakers, and overflow from events in bigger venues like the Tabernacle and Conference Center. It's open to the public anytime, unlike a temple would be. The second image is of the Salt Lake Temple Annex, which is pretty much just the temple offices and a waiting area.
-"Which you can see is a pretty shut up place" well so far the things that you've shown are not 'shut up'... the assembly hall is open to the public and the temple annex waiting area is as well. Yes the temple itself (which you haven't shown) is closed to the public but you can (and are encouraged) to walk right up to it. There is a scale model of the interior in the visitor center next door as well.
-Ah! Now you show pictures of the actual temple. Images of the symbolic details...which of course you are interpreting differently than how they were intended. The all-seeing eye represents God, the handshake isn't Masonic it's just supposed to represent fellowship, the phases of the moon go around the exterior along with the sun and stars to represent heaven and the wonder of God's creation, the Baal-Hadad symbol (crescent moon with a sun inside) is not on the temple anywhere, the inverted pentagram was not a satanic symbol when the temple was built (Satanic use started in the 1960's I believe) they were meant to represent heaven coming to earth (even Wikipedia will tell you that the pentagram used to be used as a Christian symbol representing the five wounds of Christ.)
- Bill Schnoebelen is a real guy and has what looks to be some really hilarious stuff. One that I saw in my brief search was called "Mormon Werewolves Exposed" so that may have to be featured soon, as well as a book called "Space Invaders" with Biblical answers to UFOs and alien abductions. Definitely some high-quality material.
-"To the magician, the inverted pentagram has one use only and that is to call up the power of Satan." well I guess it's a good thing that we aren't magicians then. To the Mormon, the inverted pentagram has one use only and that is to represent the condescension of God. (The divine becoming human, coming to fallen earth, and communicating with fallen man.)
-"So here is the symbol right on the Masonic temple." *Mormon
-"I took these pictures myself, so I know they're there" well isn't that great? You went to Temple Square and never even bothered learning the name of the church...
-I feel like quoting Satanists and Occultists on the Pentagram is kinda irrelevant, because we never intended it to have the same meaning as a Satanist or Occultist would. Perhaps I should interview an ancient Roman about the symbolism of the cross?
-"It (the pentagram) is on virtually every flag in the world. Ummm.... nope. Let's think of some of the major countries (outside of the US) in the world and their flags. Canada, Mexico, UK, France, Germany, Russia, Japan... no stars. All of Scandinavia - no stars. South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, Romania, South Korea, Italy, Hungary, India... no stars!
-"If we look at the Mormon Temple we will find them in the upside down form relatively frequently" those bottom two images are not from the Salt Lake temple... The bottom left I can't see a pentagram or anything else (doesn't look like an LDS temple but there are some with friezes that I might not recognize), and the bottom right is not from any LDS temple.
-"The all seeing eye there, and there" that's the same window just taken from a different angle and cropped
-"Circles, originally they even had the dot in the middle... they've removed those" umm... nope. Circle in a square represents the joining of heaven and spiritual things (the circle of eternity) with earth and physical things (square - the four cardinal directions and elements). Similar to a cross within a circle. They never originally had a dot in the middle. Kinda hard to buff that out when it's carved in stone.
-"At their other churches at the same site" Again, this is the Assembly Hall. Not a church, not used for regular worship services.
-"The Star of David" no comment? just throwing that one out there too? The symbols on the Assembly Hall are about gathering the twelve tribes of Israel from the four corners of the earth in preparation for the second coming, so the star of David is appropriate. 24 Spires (12 tribes +12 apostles) come together from the 4 corners of the earth (four points of the cross) and meet in the center of the cruciform shape (gathered to Jesus). Pretty occultic.
-"They claim they have the priesthood of Aaron, which is a blasphemy..." not if Jesus gave it to you...
-"Jesus is High Priest forever" this is in reference to the OT practice of only the High Priest being able to perform atonement sacrifices for the sins of the people or to enter the Holy of Holies and communicate with God on behalf of the people. Jesus Christ is the final atoning sacrifice and the Mediator between God and man, the fulfilling of the prophetic symbolism of the OT High Priest and thus taking the place of that high priest forever. The Bible doesn't say that priesthood is done away with forever, only that Jesus has taken over or fulfilled the role of the ancient High Priest forever. Like all Christians, Mormons believe it is now Jesus, not a mortal high priest, that is the mediator between God and man. Also, in Mormonism the office of High Priest is not in the Aaronic priesthood, and thus to a Latter-day Saint this comment is misplaced if not irrelevant.
-"They are robbing Jesus Christ of His role and His authority" Again, not if Jesus gave it to you. If you are a Mormon, you believe that Jesus is sharing His power and authority with you, not that you are stealing it from Jesus. The Bible says we should "become one" with God, and sharing His power (the priesthood) to perform His work (saving souls) is how that takes place. We are not robbing Him, we are working for and with Him.
-"both Masonry and Mormonism refer to the Melchizedek priesthood" so does the Old Testament, and the New Testament...
-Why are we discussing the Melchizedek Priesthood and high priests under the Aaronic Priesthood title?
-"The honor of the priesthood that was given to Christ ALONE." It was given to Jesus to be the High Priest FOREVER (Hebrews 6:20) - permanently. Not to him "alone". Nowhere does it say that He cannot share His priesthood with others. By sharing His priesthood with us, His power expands. It multiplies, not divides.
-"designed to rob Jesus of his power" - Man cannot steal something from God. God is more powerful than his creation. Man can have only what God will bestow upon him. (John 3:27) In case I haven't said it enough - we are NOT robbing Jesus of his power/role/authority. That is impossible. We believe that He is SHARING His power with us so that we can carry out His work. He shares this power with us as we show that we are capable and obedient, that our heart's desire is to serve Him and become one with Him in carrying out His work.
-"This is the Choir Room, if you like." It's really the only room, unless you count the sound booth and storage closets. The main floor of the Tabernacle is just one big open meeting space.
-"In Satanism, you can call him Christ too" well sure, you can call anything Christ - it's a title. I could call anyone King if I wanted to as well, doesn't mean they're a real king.
-"Many of these poor Mormons of course have no idea" How could you have no idea that you were singing praise to Satan instead of God? If you are speaking of Jesus, thinking of Jesus, etc.... then you are obviously not praising Satan. It just doesn't make sense that you could worship the wrong being unintentionally, because the focus of your worship rests in your heart and mind.
-"Because in Mormonism there are degrees." uuugggghhhhhhh. groan. eye roll.
-"They are initiated into higher and higher levels" ummm... I guess?... like baptized members, members who have been endowed, and members who have been ordained as general authorities? Maybe like, I don't know... any other Christian church that has baptism and ordination? Maybe like... I don't know.... the churches described in the Old Testament AND the New Testament?
-"So the lower levels know absolutely nothing" what makes you think that you know it then? You aren't even at the lowest level! (FYI all the doctrine and history of the church is freely available to the public. If someone wants to know they can look it up, whether they are a member or not, a "lower level" or an apostle.)
-"Poor little nun girls" - sister missionaries? Offensive and sexist, as they are adult WOMEN who are not 'poor' but empowered by their choice to devote 18 months of their life to sharing the gospel.
-"Saying these wonderful things they have read and don't even realize what they're saying" well sister missionaries on Temple Square are mostly talking about the history of the site and the basic tenets of the church, so it's hard to 'not know'... I mean, "this building is built of granite carved by hand, it was dedicated in 1890"... there's not really something to hide there, its just historic fact. And they are also in the "second level" of our three "levels" (listed above). So if they don't know because they are a clueless 'lower level' peon, then 99.99% of the church doesn't know.
-"If you look here at the Mormon structures here" this is the lobby of what is now the Joseph Smith Memorial building - previously the Hotel Utah. The hotel was the idea of a Jewish leader, designed by non-Mormon architects, and funded by an interfaith group of community leaders in Salt Lake City. It was not the property of the church until 76 years later in the 1980's. So this is not a "Mormon structure".
-"Money was obviously not an object" again, this was originally a high-class hotel funded by community shareholders from a variety of faiths. Money was very much an object, and as a BUSINESS the hotel used many strategies to stay afloat through the World Wars, the Depression, and the recession of the 1970's. As a fancy hotel, they made money by attracting wealthy guests - the hotel needed to be lavish, and it was.
-Mormon Doctrine this oughta be good...
-"Mormons teach that Adam was God" false. Brigham Young once had a personal theory about that, but the LDS church has denounced that idea as false doctrine for over 100 years. Only fundamentalist groups believe in the "adam-god theory". The verse provided (D&C 27:11) says "And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days." In context it is talking about Jesus sharing a Passover meal or sacrament with the prophets following His Second Coming. The surrounding verses list Moroni, Elias, John the Baptist, Elijah, Joseph, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Peter, James, and John as others who will be at that event. This verse is referring to Adam/Michael as the literal biological father of the human race, not as our Heavenly Father. Oh, and it's Doctrine AND Covenants, not Doctrine OF Covenants.
For more information about the "adam-god theory" see this link.
-"That some sins are atoned for by own blood only." false. The Book of Mormon says "There could be no redemption for mankind save it were through the death and sufferings of Christ, and the atonement of his blood" (Alma 21:9) and "There is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ." (Helaman 5:9) The reference provided here (Journal of Discourses vol 4 pg 53) is from a sermon given by Brigham Young on Sept 21, 1856. First let me note that the Journal of discourses is NOT scripture. It is just a collection of notes taken during sermons from the 1800's. It should never be used as a pronouncement of church doctrine and it is not canonized. The reference is quite long (read the whole thing here) but it is essentially saying that there are some sins (i.e. the unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Ghost Matt 12:31-32) that cannot be remitted by the atoning blood of Jesus, and that if those committing this sin could see the eternal consequence of their actions, they would beg to shed their own blood to atone for it. The Church has made the following statement about "blood atonement": "so-called "blood atonement," by which individuals would be required to shed their own blood to pay for their sins, is not a doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We believe in and teach the infinite and all-encompassing atonement of Jesus Christ, which makes forgiveness of sin and salvation possible for all people." (source here)
For more information about "blood atonement" see this link.
-"This is their own official writing" as I just said, not really. It's a collection of sermon notes transcribed from shorthand. It's not scripture, its not necessarily doctrine, and in many cases it's not even an accurate record of what was said.
-"That's not Biblical" exactly. That's why we don't believe it.
-"Jesus was born in Jerusalem" false. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and we believe that. We sing the word Bethlehem, not Jerusalem, in our Christmas carols. The Book of Mormon verse provided (Alma 7:10) does say that Jesus would be born "at Jerusalem" but this is considered to be much the same way that I would say I was born in Salt Lake City even though I was technically born at a hospital in Murray, a suburb about 6 miles south of Salt Lake City. Bethlehem is 6 miles south of Old Jerusalem. It is essentially a suburb of Jerusalem. No, Jesus was not technically born in Jerusalem. But he was born in what today might be called the "Jerusalem metro area". When you meet someone unfamiliar with the area where you are from, do you say "I am from Flower Mound, Texas" or "I am from Dallas, Texas"? Chances are you'd say Dallas. Are you lying because you technically live in Flower Mound? no. You are just simplifying so that the person you are speaking to can relate.
-"Thats just irritating" so is this entire video.
-"Christ was married to Mary, Martha, and others" This is from a talk given by Orson Hyde on October 6, 1854. You can read it online for free, the reference is Journal of Discourses 2:81-82. Here Orson Hyde is explaining that in his opinion Mary was married to Jesus as evidenced by her calling him Lord and Master in the account of her at the tomb. He believes that Jesus turned the water to wine at his own wedding feast. He expresses several times that he knows most of the congregation will not agree with him. This is not a uniquely Mormon idea, and legends about Jesus being married have been around for over a thousand years. There is absolutely no proof either way, a point which is immediately acknowledged. The specific quote about multiple wives is a hypothetical. Brother Hyde is saying that he would not be ashamed if it were found that Jesus had multiple wives, just as Abraham did. "To be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives;... it is all the same to me."
-"They deny the atonement" whaaaaaatttt??????? that's like our biggest thing....
-"Justification by faith alone" that IS a pernicious NON-BIBLICAL doctrine. That is NOT the atonement. The atonement is that Jesus suffered and died for our sins so that we may repent and become one (get it, at-one-ment? becoming one?) with Him. However, we are not saved on faith alone - we must repent of our sins and turn our hearts to God! Belief/faith alone is not enough. The Bible says "The devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19)
-"Joseph Fielding Smith... this is Joseph Smith himself writing" umm... nope. Joseph Fielding Smith is the grandson of Joseph Smith's brother Hyrum.
-"Mormonism is nothing other than a front for Freemasonry masquerading as a religion of Jesus Christ" So many questions. Then why are there more Mormon women than men? Freemasonry doesn't even allow women. What exactly would Freemasonry accomplish by making another organization to be a 'front' for them? Why would they go through so much work to make such a complicated false religion? What would be the end goal of duping people into thinking they are joining a Christian church when they are unknowingly joining a Masonic "front" organization that is initiating them using counterfeit rituals?
-"The Mormon Book, in 2 Nephi" It's The Book of Mormon, and its pronounced "knee-fie" with long vowels, not "neh-fee"
-I don't know what this verse has to do with anything but...
-"Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have joy." actually that's just verse 25, not 22-25 as you referenced. 22-24 talk about how without the Fall of Adam, Adam and Eve would have forever remained in the Garden of Eden, alone and incapable of understanding right from wrong. Without understanding of good and bad they also could have no comprehension of joy or sadness... it would be an eternal but meaningless existence devoid of any true human experience. "They would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin." (vs 23) But that was not God's plan! God created the earth for His glory - to be inhabited by billions, not two. "All things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things" (vs 24) So... Adam fell so that man could exist for God's glory, and God created man to have joy in Him.
-"Actually this is part of a sex cult" What??? Woah there... reading into the verse a little far. Maybe it would be fair let us decide how to interpret our own scripture? We DO NOT interpret that to be anything sexual. Obviously the fall of Adam (which we believe was disobeying the commandment to avoid the fruit, not a sexual act -check out Genesis 1 where the first commandment God gave to Adam was to multiply and replenish) made it possible for mankind to come about. Also because of the fall of Adam we can find joy in the Atonement of Jesus Christ removing the effects of that fall. (without the fall there would be no man, therefore no need for Jesus, and thus no joy) Its a gospel fact, not a sexual thing.
-"I wouldn't even want to discuss what happens in some higher echelons" well considering that you don't even know the name of the church, the name of it's founder, the name of it's book of scripture, or how to pronounce some of the most common names in that scripture... I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that you've never spoken with anyone in these imagined "upper echelons" and therefore are making this all up. Just a hunch though.
-"If a Mormon dies he has a lot of virgins up there to occupy him." hmm. 30 years a Mormon and I've never heard anything of the sort.... do you have a quote, even an obscure one, to back that up? You seem to have really obscure out of context quotes for all your other wild accusations. It also brings up another question: There are more Mormon women than Mormon men - what am I, as a woman, going to do with all those virgins? We do believe that the faithful but unmarried may be able to find a spouse in the afterlife, but that's hardly retiring to a heavenly harem.
-"Their deity is married to thousands and thousands and millions of female spirit beings." nope. never heard that one either, and I'll bet you can't find a quote. We do believe that God the Father has a (A) wife. That's it.
-"That do nothing but fornicate from morning to night to produce the souls..." again, nope. that is nowhere. Nothing about sex in heaven. Nothing about millions of wives. Nothing. I dare you to find a quote from an actual church leader or church publication. This is you putting your narrow mortal thinking on God. Remember God is not mortal, His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. Are spirits produced by a sexual act? Nobody knows. Christians don't seem to think so, why should we?
-"Sterling W. Sill, member of the first Quorum of Seventy" - he was actually assistant to the Twelve at the time of this quote (1965), not a Seventy. He became a Seventy over a decade later in 1976. (and only for two years, at that. He was made emeritus in 1978.)
-"Desert News" Its the Deseret News. Des-er-et, not Des-ert. But we've already established that you don't know anything about our lovely Deseret, carry on.
-"this is serpent language, 'when you fall, you will get wisdom'" umm, yeah. Are you saying that Adam and Eve did not gain wisdom when they fell? We just covered this... they were innocent, they fell, then they understood good and evil. The serpent wasn't lying to them, he was tempting them to disobey God by making it look appealing. If I say that you should murder someone you dislike because then you won't have to deal with them anymore, I'm not lying to you, I'm tempting you to break God's law by telling an appealing truth and ignoring the negative consequences. I will save going into the whole diatribe about the fall of Adam for a future post.
-"The devil told the truth about godhead." Well I already explained that the devil told the truth. What he said would happen, happened. He said their eyes would be opened, they would be like God knowing good from evil (Gen 3:5), and they did (Gen 3:7). It was fulfilled only two verses later. The devil told the truth. That is not a sensational statement by Brigham Young, just a Biblical fact.
-"I do not blame mother Eve. I would not have her miss eating the forbidden fruit for anything." I also would not have Eve miss eating the fruit. Had she not, we would not be here. It would still be her and Adam sitting there alone, innocent, no understanding of good vs. evil, no understanding of joy vs. sorrow, no righteousness and no sin. Jesus, who was "foreordained before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20) would have nothing to do but twiddle His thumbs, unneeded. God PLANNED for Adam to fall - if He wanted Adam and Eve to sit there forever alone He wouldn't have put a tempting tree in the garden or allowed the serpent to be there. He wouldn't have already had Jesus waiting to make up for it. Again, not a sensational statement by Brigham, just a logical fact. God is in control, He allowed and planned for the fall to happen. Look at what you've made me do. I said I wasn't going to get into this and now I've done it.
-"Through the gift of sin humanity can achieve godhood." Yup. so if you've followed me this far, you hopefully understand that without sin, there wouldn't be humanity and there wouldn't be a Savior. Thus we could never become like God. We couldn't become anything at all. No sin, no Jesus, no atonement, no becoming one with God. Sin is a gift that allows us to accept Jesus. If there was no sin, there would be no Jesus, so there would be no salvation... You read me? God makes all things for His glory - including sin! (Nobody is saying we should seek out opportunities to sin... sin will happen naturally. The world is just set up that way, just like the Garden of Eden was set up that way.)
-"Who is this speaking, is this the devil speaking or is this Jesus Christ speaking?" Neither, it's Brigham Young speaking. You have already made that clear.
-"This is in their Doctrine of covenants" I think we've already been over this. It's Doctrine AND Covenants. I can tell you definitely looked up this reference when you get the name of the book wrong and don't have a section or verse. The first sentence is the first half of 93:23 and the last two sentences are 93:29.
-"again you have it there, Mormonism is nothing other than Freemasonry masquerading as a religion of Jesus Christ." uuummmm.... what does this verse jumble have to do with Freemasonry? This section of the D&C is discussing how man came from the presence of God and thus has the capability of understanding eternal truths.... it might sound a little jarring to some Christian ears but that doesn't make it Freemasonry. (and even if it did... I don't see how that is a bad thing. Freemasons are not Satanists.)
-"and just being a tool for the Jesuit Order." I don't think those faithful Catholic Jesuits would be using Mormons as a tool, with their goal of converting others to Catholicism it seems a bit counter-intuitive.
-"The Catholic Mass basically says the same thing" Wow! it's been awhile since I attended a mass, I'm excited to hear this if it's true. Glad to share this belief and understanding that the fall of Adam is indeed a gift that brought about our Redeemer.
-"This is the figure of Christ that they have at the Mormon Temple." Well, its actually the figure of Christ that they have at the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Our Lady in Copenhagen. We just liked it so much that we made copies (with permission) and put them in a couple of our temple visitor centers beginning in the 1960's. But we aren't the only ones, there are other replicas in cemeteries, hospitals, and Protestant churches all over the US and Europe.
-"Whether Jesus looked like that or not, who knows?" You are right here - nobody knows. Bertel Thorvaldsen sculpted it in 1821... before the Mormons but long after Jesus was around.
-"I wonder why they did a split beard which is the symbol of a goat but nevertheless." Ask Bertel Thorvaldsen, a PROTESTANT sculptor from BEFORE MORMONISM EXISTED.
-"Here we have the leader Joseph Smith and if you look at the figures over here you'll see a beehive and if you go and look in the workbook, to Babylonians you'll see that the beehive is a symbol of paganism. This is pagan deities." The beehive is also the state symbol of Utah, and that figure you see there is the state seal. And the state seal is on the wall behind Joseph Smith because this is in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building formerly the Hotel Utah, which we've already discussed. So the state seal was on the wall of the hotel, which presumably was left there when it became the JSMB. The state of Utah uses the beehive as a symbol of industry and cooperation. Not Babylonian pagans, just industrial revolution era values our state was founded on.
-"The world is being controlled by occultists" I'm going to assume that most world leaders belong to Abrahamic religions or are atheist/agnostic. Can't name a single world leader or influencer who adheres to occultism... Quick search of famous occultists gave me a huge list of mostly artists - the closest thing to a world leader I could find was a deceased NPR reporter who was a Wiccan Priestess.
-"occultists usually run in families" well, yeah, kids often remain in the religious faith in which they were raised. Christianity also runs in families, as does Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism. It's not a genetic trait, just human nature to stay where we feel comfortable.
-"Some people take it too far and say there is a reptilian connection..." So, because you don't believe that the Satanic Jesuit Freemason Mormons are also Silurians, your argument is totally sane and logical? (In all seriousness, I think he's referring to David Icke's Reptoid Hypothesis, which as far as I can tell makes no direct claims to Mormonism, only to influential world leaders and the New World Order (the Illuminati or Babylonian Brotherhood). But of course Mormons must be a part of the NWO because one of our ceremonies follows the same basic format as one of the Freemason ceremonies and what else could the Freemasons be doing in those secret ceremonies other than sacrificing children to further the Archon race?)
-random rant about how certain families rule the earth... which has nothing to do with satanists, Jesuits, occultists, Freemasons, lizard people, or Mormons.
-now some royal lines have been eradicated through Jesuit decree umm... again, the Jesuits are just an order of Catholic missionaries... they don't really have the power to eliminate entire families. And even if they did, what about the royal families in nations with very few Catholics (Asia) or families from long before the Jesuits existed?
-The house of Stuart... everyone of them high Masons so they're all occultists umm... So the House of Stuart was in power until 1714, which was about the time the modern Freemasonry emerged. Kinda hard for them to all be high Masons when Masonry didn't exist for most of their reign. Not to mention Masonry does/did not accept women so what about Queen Mary and Queen Anne? And I think I already discussed that occultism as we know it today didn't exist until at least 100 years after that.... so no they couldn't have been occultists. And of course this was all 115 years before Mormonism began so I don't know what it has to do with anything.
-Is it possible that these royal families are controlling much of the world? well... um... by definition, yes. Royalty implies being a ruler. But none of them are Mormons. Or Satanists...
-Here is the Howland Family chart which is published at the Mormon temple... I believe this is/was displayed in the FamilySearch center (not the temple), meant to spark people's interest in doing family history work. It is a poster showing that Joseph Smith, George Bush, Winston Churchill, FDR, Ford, and Nixon share a common ancestor named Henry Howland. You can Google for a clearer image if you're interested.
-The great great grandfather -well, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather of Joseph Smith and great, great great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather of George Bush... scientifically speaking, when you go back that far almost all people of European ancestry have a common ancestor. Especially if your family was in the US in the 1600's like the Howlands. FamilySearch now has a fun thing that will tell you how you are related to a variety of historic figures... go try it! You'll see that you also have a common ancestor with a US president!
-gloss over Emma Hale. you don't know who she is, do you?
-Then if you go to Mormons and NASA, you'll see that all the top men were Mormons. Lets think of some "top men" in NASA. Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Sally Ride (remember women exist too!), John Glenn, Alan Shepherd... Nope... no Mormons. I've already mentioned the names of all three Mormons who have been to space. But what does that have to do with us being Satanic? have no Christians been to space?
-if you go to a Mason temple you'll see photographs of the presidents and the great men who went up into the skies. well... maybe, if they were fellow Masons. But all that proves is that some astronauts and presidents were Masons, and the point of this presentation is supposed to be that Mormons are Satanic, so... we seem to be a bit disconnected from the focus of our argument here.
-What is the greatest war ever to be waged on this planet? 9/11? not a war, just a single event that spawned a war. Also way to only list wars the US was involved in from the last 100 years. Very narrow scope. Pretty sure mankind has been around for thousands of years with thousands of wars.
